Is there any obvious tone difference?.
Is there any obvious tone difference?.
Opinion is only as valid as its verifiable supporting evidence.
Original Altec built 416-8B and 416-8C certainly have distinguishable sonic differences.
I think i have read an account from an owner of the GPA 416C that revealed that it uses a copper shorting ring in the magnet circuit which makes the motor behave more like it's alnico brother and less like the original C. Voices i trust have said the GPA 416-8C may be the best of all the 416's while they seldom even discuss the Altec built C version. Someday i'd like to spend some quality time with a pair and hear for myself.
Not all vegetables make good leaders.
Good comment. Unfortunately my 416Bs need cone upgrades so I am toying with the idea of buying new GPAs and selling my current drivers 'as is'. A recone is also possible. I saw the GPA driver's specs and the 416C does 10Hz better at the low end for what it's worth. I have to do something and the C's are cheaper but not value if they aren't up to the B's.
Opinion is only as valid as its verifiable supporting evidence.
What about the GPA 3154? It's got wider response, more power handling, and it's cheaper.
I agree with Bowtie - would really like to hear these new speakers.
Needs the power handling to get the same overall SPL's as it's much less sensitive than a 416.What about the GPA 3154? It's got wider response, more power handling, and it's cheaper.
I doubt it'll play nearly as smooth over a wide BW in any given alignment. While it's probably an excellent choice for certain applications, it is not on par with the 416 for hifi apps.
Not all vegetables make good leaders.
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I have had a long conversation about this very thing with Bill when I was starting my DIY project. I had a bunch of 416's that needed to be reconed/remagged.I was considering buying new GPA 416-B's for my dual woofer corner box project and he said sonically, there was no real difference between the ferrite and Alnico Altec/GPA's.He also didn't understand why so many folk's wanted to stick with the Alnico Altec 416's and original cones (Like Me).And the GPA alnico 416B's that are more expensive.I think this all started with the preference of the original Altec 21184 cones WRT to sound difference compared to the new GPA cones.As far as the motors go, who knows.In the absence of any real measurements this point is still up in the air IMO.It still all boils down to ones personal sonic preferences WRT Alnico & Ferrite,Original Cones & Recones. YMMV.
Voices i trust have said the GPA 416-8C may be the best of all the 416's
Agreed this is the point that Bill was trying to make to me.He thought the GPA 416C is the best choice because of the same sound (No difference, his opinion) but at a much cheaper cost when I was considering buying new GPA 416 B's.But I still ended up going with the recones of my Altec 416-8B's... Because of the original Altec drivers.
It was cheaper though.
I just wanted to have original Altec's in the end I guess.But that is going to be one of my next purchases from GPA. 416-8C's
Bill said it, it must be true. Maybe, for the average or inexperienced listener it is.I have had a long conversation about this very thing with Bill when I was starting my DIY project. I had a bunch of 416's that needed to be reconed/remagged.I was considering buying new GPA 416-B's for my dual woofer corner box project and he said sonically, there was no real difference between the ferrite and Alnico Altec/GPA's.
However, i will continue to parrot what i know from experience, and having listened to several versions of Altec 416 in my own systems and environment.
Fact #1, Altec made 2 different versions of 416-8C, the motors differ significantly. It is unfortunate that the "gurus" do not acknowledge this as the differing magnetic structures present different T/S parameters.
Fact #2, between the Altec built 416-8B, and 416-8C published parameters there are many differences, some of which nearly guarantee that they will sound different from each other in any given alignment, particularly where Qts is concerned.
AB, i would wager that if somebody snuck in and swapped your B's for C's in your 19's, you would very quickly be on the prowl to determine what was wrong or had changed in your system. I don't suggest that you would immediately look to the woofers. But, i do suggest that you would immediately detect some "familiarity" of the sonic signature of your 19's/system to be missing or changed.
In large BR boxes i noticed the difference between B and C immediately. In 828 cabinets i honestly can't say whether i heard a difference or if my mind was still polluted and biased from the difference i heard in the BR boxes. Knowing the difference i'd heard in the BR cabs certainly put a damper on my listening objectivity for that session.
My perception is that the B has the most natural bass presentation with a very natural sounding decay, and the C while having the same fast attack has a faster, kind of unnatural sounding decay, some might call it "overdamped".
IMO, the 416-8B is one of a small handful of woofers that represent "the best ever made", the C would find itself a good bit further down on my list.
Last edited by bowtie427ss; May 6th, 2012 at 07:35 AM.
Not all vegetables make good leaders.
Voices i trust have said the GPA 416-8C may be the best of all the 416'sNo different for me is it ? Bill is someones opinion I trust. As I do yours ! I agree about the Altec 416-8B's as they are my favorite 15" woofer "Hands Down".The C version sounded a bit muddy/colored to me.But again that's just my opinion.And not necessarily how they will sound to someone else.Bill said it, it must be true.
But my point was and still is.What is the cause and effect of the slight differences in all the different 416 versions.The only facts on this seem to be opinions and that's it.Maybe a few of us can get together and do some measuring on some original Altec 416's A/B/C's and the newer GPA B/C's.It would be nice to finally see some kind of measurement comparisons on the 416 variations by Altec and the GPA models if there are any. Wouldn't this be ideal ? That's all I'm asking.
To make it a fair test we would need several cabs, as that is an important part.
Also- best for someone else may not be best for you. If we did a test might be nice to have data and a synopsis of several tester's opinions.
How it sounds always takes precedence over how it measures...but if you can have both...
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